Considering that Revit and most other software have evolved considerably over the last 10 years, including switching to other IFC-libraries, changing how IFC is dealt with and providing alternative means to configure the export, I wonder what such certification actually signifies for the current iteration of the software?
Unless I completely misunderstood, the certification procedure is done at one time for one version of the software. Can you even state that the software you use is certified if you are not using that version?
The only type of renewing we can read about is the IFC4 certification, for which no report is linked in the database. Is that also for a particular version of the software?
To further this topic: if you write in your project information protocol or EIR that only certified software may be applied, what are you actually specifying then? The software in general? A version of the software? A version of the IFC-export/import plug-in?
Unfortunately if you write that āonly certified software may ā¦ā it is in practice a pretty meaningless sentence for exactly the shortcomings youāve identified.
hi @stefkeB
I see that the certification is again a hot topic. I had a similar case here some time ago.
In my last EIRs I am simply avoiding the sentences of defining that a software should be certified according to bsI. The reasons you have listed in your post. Even if a software is certified, there are problems with exportign an IFC for that software.
What is important for me in EIR, is to state that the software should export either IFC2x3 or IFC4 and in the future IFC4.3. I need interoperability between the software as long as the software can generate the schema in relative ācleanā way.
How many software programs were out in the market in 2017 exchanging IFC schema but with a pending status for certification? This is also another aspect, which I donāt quite understand, with the certification.
Itās 2024 now and the listing still does not contain any IFC4-based certification reports related to the certified software. Are these a secret? What are we allowed to know apart from the date and the software name and some MVD (which is also not linked)? Even the software version is not mentioned.
What is even āArchitectural Reference Viewā? This is not an MVD we can find on the MVD databaseā¦
It is only mentioned that we have to ask buildingSMART about it.
Exchange requirements can be defined on top of these (base) MVD. This will increase the interoperability between different domains.
On top of these MVDs there are use-cases defined for Architectural, Structural, MEP, Infra and Rail use of the MVDs. Software tools can get certified against these use-cases. For more info contact technical@buildingsmart.org.
Maybe Iām nagging here, but I donāt see any point on prescribing ācertifiedā software in an EIR or BEP when we have no clue what this certification actually means. And I cannot withhold software that has no certification by buildingSMART.
Anyone? Most ācertifiedā software was updated countless times, with changes in how they handle IFC. Are they getting re-certified? Is there any public report on the certification results? I understand that this is quite a costly and intensive procedure.
Iām aware of that page (and linked to it in my previous messages). My main concern is that apart from this listing, we donāt have ANY other information: we know that at some point that a certification was granted. And thatās it.
We donāt know which version of the software was certified, we donāt know if certification gets re-tested after the (yearly!) software updates, we donāt know if software has to run certification again if they change their IFC export or import code or if they switch toolkits.
Many people start to define workflows, using IFC-toolkits. None of the toolkits are listed in the certification database, yet we rely on them on a daily basis. BIM software on the certified list also use such toolkits or have their own toolkit in-house. We donāt know anything about this.
Hi @stefkeB
All good questions. As always the answers can be found somewhere deeply hidden on the buildingSMART websites
Most of your assumptions are correct. Just be aware we are talking about the āoldā b-cert certification. It is not possible anymore to start that kind of certification anymore since we have transitioned to a new system.
I assume your questions are about the old b-cert setup, so my answer are also about that.
The certification is indeed not on a specific version of a product; the certificate says it ācertifies that VENDOR has passed the tests using TOOLā. That is it. Vendors has passed tests and they told the system they did it using a certain tool. Not a specific version, sometimes not even a version that is commercially available for end-users.
The certification is valid for 5 years
the most common MVDs (reference/coordination view) are split into 3 kinds of usages. The MVD defines the implementation level (how things are connected and implemented) and on top of that they define a set of classes and properties that are āminimum to execute the use-caseā. For example an MEP softwaretool needs to prove it can export an IfcPump. An architectural tool does not need to prove that. So that is why within the MVD there are 3 sets of requirements that define the minimum definition for the use-case of reference or coordination.
The old system is indeed time consuming due to a lot of manual checks; and costly
The tests of the b-cert system were/are indeed secret.
As you know, the new system is going to tackle of of these issues. Of course the new setup comes with new concerns and issues, but we feel those dwarf the benefits.
As you may have heard, it is based on metrics of actual use from the validation service. Some videos I recommend watching are:
